THE FULL FACTS

A guide to ESA and ATOS claim form, and medical examination assessments.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Dear Alistair Burt,

I wish to have my ESA medical recorded as I have been subject to substantial mis-recording in the past.


On the 1st February 2012, employment minister Chris Grayling stated in Parliament:

“On audio recording, we will offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded. We decided not to implement universal recording because, based on the trial experience, people did not want it. Few people wanted their sessions recorded, and some said that they definitely did not. We decided therefore to offer recording as an option to those who want it. That seems entirely sensible.”


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Please read the following extract taken from

http://www.bhfederation.org.uk/componen ... pment.html


"The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) bought 11 dual CD interview recorders, one for each region of the country, so claimants of employment and support allowance (ESA) – the replacement for incapacity benefit – could have their work capability assessments (WCAs) recorded.

They bought the machines because many disabled claimants were complaining that “healthcare professionals” working for Atos Healthcare, the company that carries out the tests for the government, failed to record the evidence they were given accurately.

"Following a recommendation by Professor Malcom Harrington, who has been reviewing the WCA for the government, the Conservative employment minister Chris Grayling promised MPs in February that Atos would “offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded”.

Jayne Linney, from Leicester, has tried seven times to have her assessment recorded but each time her WCA has had to be postponed because recording equipment was not available.

She has now been told twice by Atos staff that all 11 of the interview recorders are broken and that Atos had decided it would no longer offer a recording option."




------------------------------------


If all the machines ( purchased this year and presumably still under warranty/ contract!!!! ) were so unused how come they are all broken, and if broken why not repaired/ replaced? To argue that this (unadvertised) facility should be withdrawn because it is unused is akin to arguing that council elections should be withdrawn as so few people bother to vote. This is surely bringing Chris Grayling MP and the word of the Government into disrepute as this is risible. Or is it another U-turn?



Yours sincerely,


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Well said! I hope your M.P. manages to get it sorted out for you.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:21 pm 
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All 11 of the brand new recorders, presumably operated only by ATOS staff, are broken? Yes, and I live on a planet supported by four giant elephants standing on the back of a giant turtle...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:46 am 
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I think it's quite possible for them all to be broken, since they're regularly sending them between assessment centres, presumably by courier (who aren't exactly known for their care with parcels). It is a little convenient for the DWP and Atos though.

I'm very worried because the option to record WCAs is the one slight reassurance about the ESA process. If that's gone, there's no way to prove it if a HCP writes a fairytale instead of an accurate report.

I'm thinking about writing to my MP too, it just feels like such a waste of time if my last contact with him is anything to go by.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:30 am 
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feel free to copy my letter.

The more people contact MPs the more fuss is made and the more public it gets. Then more people ask for a recording!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Forgive me if this sounds silly but if I request a recorded medical who's problem is it that they do not have any machines?

It is not my problem and I don't mind waiting for them to get one.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Toolbox wrote:
Forgive me if this sounds silly but if I request a recorded medical who's problem is it that they do not have any machines?

It is not my problem and I don't mind waiting for them to get one.



Not so good if the claimant is on assessment rate!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:06 pm 
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Toolbox wrote:
Forgive me if this sounds silly but if I request a recorded medical who's problem is it that they do not have any machines?

It is not my problem and I don't mind waiting for them to get one.

This was my thought too, but I don't think it works like that. As far as I'm aware, recording of a WCA isn't a right, it's just something that you can request, meaning that they don't have to allow you this.

osdset wrote:
Not so good if the claimant is on assessment rate!

Have I read somewhere that the DWP have to pay a higher rate after 13-weeks (I think) whether they've finished their assessment or not, or did I imagine that? Something about it being the DWPs fault for the backlog, not the claimant's so they shouldn't have to lose out because of it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:20 pm 
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angelusmalus wrote:

Have I read somewhere that the DWP have to pay a higher rate after 13-weeks (I think) whether they've finished their assessment or not, or did I imagine that? Something about it being the DWPs fault for the backlog, not the claimant's so they shouldn't have to lose out because of it.


A benefits advisor had a 1st tier tribunal win on this issue, Here http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/2810/


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:24 pm 
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osdset wrote:
A benefits advisor had a 1st tier tribunal win on this issue, Here http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/2810/


Thanks for the link, that was what I read -- the first post, anyway -- and would never have known where I read it. My brain is mush so I can't make sense of the other posts in that thread, but it looks like it's something that individuals have to appeal, rather than it being the standard practice that I thought it was. And I think I gathered that the DWP are trying to appeal against the decision, as they don't want it to become the norm for people to have to be paid the full rate after 13 weeks if they don't have an ESA decision yet. They really are doing all they can to get out of paying people what they're entitled to, aren't they?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:01 am 
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I finally got round to writing to my MP about this.

---------------

I am writing with regard to the recording of ESA Work Capability
Assessments, carried out by Atos Healthcare.

On 12th July 2012, Chris Grayling stated, in answer to a parliamentary
question, "We have asked Atos Healthcare to accommodate requests for
audio recording, where a claimant makes a request in advance of their
assessment."

Within days of this statement, people were posting online to say that,
despite having made advance requests to have their WCA recorded, they
were now being told by Atos that recording was not possible. Two
different reasons cited were that all the recording equipment is
broken, and that the DWP have instructed Atos that the option of
recording has been withdrawn.

I would be grateful if you could confirm the current situation
regarding the ability for people to have their WCA recorded, whether
this option is still available, and if so, what the problem is that has
led to people being denied the option of a recording and when this will
be resolved?

As someone who has yet to be migrated from Incapacity Benefit to ESA, I
am already terrified of the impending ESA process. The option of having
any WCAs recorded is a slight reassurance, in case the Atos healthcare
professional's report contains errors or omissions. Without this
option, there will be no way to prove what really happens at a WCA,
making it all more worrying.

One further question I have is regarding what happens if WCA recording
is temporarily unavailable.

In response to a Freedom of Information request (available at
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/w ... cordings_2), the DWP
stated on 14 June 2012: "if a claimant is unable to attend their WCA
because Atos Healthcare are unable to comply with the request [for a
recorded WCA] the postponement will not be attributed to the claimant."

Yet in a blog entry (available at
http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/07/ ... f-the-wca/),
Atos Healthcare has said on 6 July 2012: "under the terms of our
contract with the Department [for Work and Pensions], we cannot
postpone an assessment on the basis of audio-recording."

This is obviously conflicting information. I would like to know if it
is possible for a WCA to be postponed until the recording equipment is
available, where recording has been requested in advance? And if
postponement is possible, could you please confirm that the benefit
claimant will not lose out due to this delay, for example by being told
that they have failed to attend a medical (by insisting on waiting for
a recorded WCA), or being held on the assessment rate of ESA beyond the
initial 13 weeks assessment phase?

I look forward to your reply.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:05 am 
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brilliant. great to see someone else getting their teeth stuck into this. well done and 5 shiny stars!!!! ( and a house point!!!) :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:23 am 
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I also contacted my MP but not had a reply so far, what one did you get Noggin?

I bet I get the same standard letter.

Quote:
Yet in a blog entry (available at
http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/07/ ... f-the-wca/),
Atos Healthcare has said on 6 July 2012: "under the terms of our
contract with the Department [for Work and Pensions], we cannot
postpone an assessment on the basis of audio-recording."


Depending on the reply I get I may go back and ask a quetsion about the above quote.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:30 pm 
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MP ....." thanks you fori nforming him of this matter and will be looking into it. We will get back...... etc

I have taken the liberty of copying and amending angelus' letter ( which I think is pretty good) and sending to my MP as additional information.

Further to my previous email


On 12th July 2012, Chris Grayling stated, in answer to a parliamentary
question, "We have asked Atos Healthcare to accommodate requests for
audio recording, where a claimant makes a request in advance of their
assessment."
Within days of this statement, people were posting online to say that,
despite having made advance requests to have their WCA recorded, they
were now being told by Atos that recording was not possible!
Two different reasons cited were that all the recording equipment is
broken, and that the DWP have instructed Atos that the option of
recording has been withdrawn. ( Yet the DWP authorised the purchase of more machines to replace those " broken")

Are they lying? If not... Who authorised this ( secret) decision totally contradicting a minister's statement to Parliament?

I would be grateful if you could
a) confirm the current situation regarding the ability for people to have their WCA recorded,
b) whetherthis option is still available as stated by Chris Grayling, and if so,
c) what the problem is that has led to people being denied the option of a recording?


One further question I have is regarding what happens if WCA recording
is temporarily unavailable.
In response to a Freedom of Information request (available at
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/w ... cordings_2), the DWP
stated on 14 June 2012:

"if a claimant is unable to attend their WCA because Atos Healthcare are unable to comply with the request [for a
recorded WCA] the postponement will not be attributed to the claimant."


Yet in a blog entry only three weeks later (available at
http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/07/ ... f-the-wca/),
Atos Healthcare has said on 6 July 2012:

"under the terms of our contract with the Department [for Work and Pensions], we cannot
postpone an assessment on the basis of audio-recording."

This is obviously conflicting information.
I would like to know if it is possible for a WCA to be postponed until the recording equipment is available,
where recording has been requested in advance? And if postponement is possible, could you please confirm
that the benefit claimant will not lose out due to this delay,
for example by being told that they have failed to attend a medical (by insisting on waiting for
a recorded WCA).

It seems that yet another farcical situation is developing where contractors are ignoring the wishes of parliament.

I look forward to your reply.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:29 pm 
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I got a reply from Mark Hoban via my MP. It's dated 10 September.

Quote:
Thank you for your letter of 24 July on behalf of [me] about the audio recording of the face-to-face Work Capability Assessment (WCA). I am sorry for the delay in replying.

In his first independent review of the WCA, Professor Harrington recommended that Atos Healthcare pilot the audio recording of face-to-face assessments to "determine whether such an approach is helpful for claimants and improves the quality of assessments."

A pilot was conducted during Spring 2011. The results of the pilot clearly shows that audio recording of Atos assessments would not improve the quality of assessments and there was only limited evidence of improvement in the customer experience for some individuals. Less than half consented to having their assessment recorded and a tiny proportion, less than 1 per cent, requested a copy of their assessment. There was no difference between the quality of recorded assessments and those which were not recorded.

Providing an audio recording facility for all assessments would be extremely costly with no apparent substantial benefit or improvement in assessments. As a result, the Department has not implemented universal recording of assessments. Instead we have asked Atos Healthcare to try and accommodate requests for audio recording where a claimant makes a request in advance of their assessment.

It is important to note that the availability of audio recording was announced at a time when only a small number of requests were expected and since that time the number of requests has increased significantly. This has put pressure on the ability of Atos Healthcare to accommodate all requests.

The dual CD machines which the DWP uses for audio recording are a specialist item and are built on demand. As a consequence there is a lead in time of 4-10 weeks. Additional machines have been ordered. In view of the limited number of requests for recording, the limited funds available and competing priorities, the large scale purchase of machines is not an effective use of public money. Although there have been increases in requests these still represent only a small percentage of overall WCAs – equating to 0.18 per cent of completed face-to-face assessments for the period March – July 2012.

In the meantime, whilst Atos Healthcare will do all that they can to accommodate requests for audio recording, there may be times when this service cannot be offered, for example, where it has not been possible to get access to recording equipment on the date/time of the WCA. In these circumstances clients will be told in advance that their request cannot be accommodated. Currently, WCA appointments may be deferred for up to four weeks for any circumstance, including the non-availability of recording equipment.

I hope this is helpful to you.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:34 pm 
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What puzzles me about this is, that these machines are "specialist" "built to order " "expensive" and obviously very fragile. Either fragile or poorly built or built to a flawed concept. Who will ever know?
Now, given that these are "Dual CD recording devices" what exactly is so high tech? CD media as such is such old tech that it is being phased out in favour of DVD and Blu-ray, so what tech is it that requires new and specialised technology to record 2 pieces of CD media? This sounds like a fairy story to me.
Anyone with a mobile phone, PC, laptop etc can make a recording and its a straightforward task to copy the contents of one CD to another in minutes if not seconds.
This is obviously obfuscation to the Nth degree and its more likely the case that the less accountable and transparent ATOS and its procedures are the better it suits all who sit on their side of the fence...

If providing such a device is so difficult for the poor bewildered technophobes at ATOS and a client wants a record of the assessment, then surely the onus is on them to then provide a third party to takes notes by shorthand or any other means. Then perhaps they could get in a specialist technician to take a photocopy?


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