THE FULL FACTS

A guide to ESA, ESA50 claim form and ATOS WCA
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012, 17:51 
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i am right in thinking that "all" i require to be placed in the support group is 15 points from all those categories....do i have that right?
plus i am really not fit enough to attend a medical if asked. is there a space/section on the ESA50 form to request a home visit?i can't seem to be able to find it......
what would be the most successful way to request a home visit?

sorry to be asking such basic and probably oft covered Qs,but with all this anxiety and depression of late i am not really able to concentrate/research for myself

jeez and depression ain't my main problem...you folk are the BIZ

i am really badly disabled with ankylosing spondylitis,(i notice it is in the last group!!) it is a variable condition, from a slight backache for life to a deformed and crippled spine hips, neck etc. TBH it's a nightmare of an illness.i have had it since i was 20 odd,i am now 57 and it gets worse year by year

my ribs are fused with no expansion so breathing is very laboured.without the aid of my two sticks i'd fall on my ar*e.with the sticks i can only manage very short distances before breathlessness and pain overcomes me.the standing and sitting is another matter due to pelvis, hips and spine.

my spine and neck is fused so i'm stuck rigid and can't bend spine or neck,getting into a car is a laff as i have to be helped in almost horizontally :D
so getting to the "venue" and all that walking and stuff would set me back about two weeks in bed with recovery due to the dreaded "flare ups"

just a little background for you and thanks for listening.God knows you all have your own problems

so what do you think about my home visit request and the best way to approach it?

thanks all
John

ps oh i should add that i will be able to produce letters of support/confirmation from my GP,hospital rheumatology consultant and a professor of rheumatology, whose independant report stated some 5 years ago that i would be never be fit for work again


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012, 18:26 
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15 points or more will give you limited capability for work and admission to the W.R.A.G you will then be considered for limited capability for work related activity actualy they decide at the same time if you meet the criteria which is slightly different to go in the support group and its not points based


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012, 21:41 
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no, not correct. The Support Group criteria are a set of descriptors, similar to those that are the 15 pointers for the ESA50, but not necessarily identical. For example, if you could manage to mobilise 30 metres, but not 50 metres, you'd get 15 points, but wouldn't meet the Support Group descriptor for mobility.

As it is, you only have to meet ONE of the Support Group descriptors (though you might have to go to appeal to get it) in order to get in.

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012, 22:52 
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TiddK wrote:
no, not correct. The Support Group criteria are a set of descriptors, similar to those that are the 15 pointers for the ESA50, but not necessarily identical. For example, if you could manage to mobilise 30 metres, but not 50 metres, you'd get 15 points, but wouldn't meet the Support Group descriptor for mobility.

As it is, you only have to meet ONE of the Support Group descriptors (though you might have to go to appeal to get it) in order to get in.


would they be able to make this decision on me joining the support group from the info provided on the ESA50?
this is what is confusing me


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012, 22:59 
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giveusabreakgov wrote:

would they be able to make this decision on me joining the support group from the info provided on the ESA50?
this is what is confusing me


Yes, if you appeal the DWP Decision maker can put you in the support group.

If not then you go to tribunal who then can place you in support group.

Confusing ain't it? No wonder IDS has no clue how it works.

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012, 23:11 
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Toolbox wrote:
giveusabreakgov wrote:

would they be able to make this decision on me joining the support group from the info provided on the ESA50?
this is what is confusing me


Yes, if you appeal the DWP Decision maker can put you in the support group.

If not then you go to tribunal who then can place you in support group.

Confusing ain't it? No wonder IDS has no clue how it works.


so just a final clarification TB....the ATOS crowd themseves can put me in the support group on the strength of my ESA50.....if they refuse to do so the DWP can over rule them and send me off to happydale (support group) and if that fails to happen a tribunal can rule in my favour,is that it?


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012, 23:30 
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thanks Kab and all the others i feel a litle less stressed with all your kind help

will read more posts when i have the time and get to know folk and site history....whoever put this place together deserves a medal.thank you


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012, 23:32 
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kab wrote:
Hi and welcome to the forums,

As you have only just had the letter regarding your migration, you will shortly get three phone calls, you can answer or ignore, about a week after your will get ESA 50 form, you can download a editable version so you can fill it n online and save a copy printing it off to post back. use the sections on page two to ask for a home visit, explaining why you are unable to attend, and ask GP to back this up and refer to the GP's document attached on the form, mention if it's faxed to them as well.

Make copies of all the supporting medical evidence and staple it to the printed form make sure every page has your name and NI number on it. You can also use the extra information section page 18 to liist every piece of evidence sent and who it's from, include a copy of your repeat script form, add in a daily diary of how your disabilities affect your on a day to day basis, and supporting letter from carers.
Follow the guides given at the bottom of my post.

Our GP faxed a letter to ATOS directly explaining why OH was unable to attend a WCA. And we enclosed a copy with the ESA50 and noted it in the extra information section and on page 2.

My OH was not called to medical, nor assessed at home and was moved directly from IB to support group as I believe we provided concise detailed information which was supported with medical evidence

Good luck



my carer is my wife...would this carry any weight?


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PostPosted: Wed 05 Sep 2012, 20:46 
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giveusabreakgov wrote:
Toolbox wrote:
giveusabreakgov wrote:

would they be able to make this decision on me joining the support group from the info provided on the ESA50?
this is what is confusing me


Yes, if you appeal the DWP Decision maker can put you in the support group.

If not then you go to tribunal who then can place you in support group.

Confusing ain't it? No wonder IDS has no clue how it works.


so just a final clarification TB....the ATOS crowd themseves can put me in the support group on the strength of my ESA50.....if they refuse to do so the DWP can over rule them and send me off to happydale (support group) and if that fails to happen a tribunal can rule in my favour,is that it?


Not quite - if the DWP initial investigation into your medical history (in theory they do this) checks out, you could find yourself in the Support Group without ATOS involvement.
That scenario is unlikely, so the next step is that the DWP contact you and explain you will be sent the ESA50 which is to be returned to ATOS, who may recommend that you don't need a WCA on the basis of what's in the form. In that case, the DWP DM will decide which of the two groups you should be in, and let you know.
If ATOS decide you need a WCA, you will have to undergo that, and as a result you COULD find yourself in the Support Group, but it's more likely that if you have a WCA you will end up in the WRAG. The DWP will only overrule ATOS if it's exactly 60 days since the last green cheese full moon.
If you disagree with the DM's decision, you have 30 days to ask for an appeal. The DWP will give a reconsideration first, and will only overturn their original decision if it's exactly 60 days since .. (etc). At this point your papers will be passed to the Tribunals Service who will get in touch with you re. an appeal.

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2012, 00:35 
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would they be able to make this decision on me joining the support group from the info provided on the ESA50?
this is what is confusing me[/quote]

Yes, if you appeal the DWP Decision maker can put you in the support group.

If not then you go to tribunal who then can place you in support group.

Confusing ain't it? No wonder IDS has no clue how it works.[/quote]

so just a final clarification TB....the ATOS crowd themseves can put me in the support group on the strength of my ESA50.....if they refuse to do so the DWP can over rule them and send me off to happydale (support group) and if that fails to happen a tribunal can rule in my favour,is that it?[/quote]

Not quite - if the DWP initial investigation into your medical history (in theory they do this) checks out, you could find yourself in the Support Group without ATOS involvement.
That scenario is unlikely, so the next step is that the DWP contact you and explain you will be sent the ESA50 which is to be returned to ATOS, who may recommend that you don't need a WCA on the basis of what's in the form. In that case, the DWP DM will decide which of the two groups you should be in, and let you know.
If ATOS decide you need a WCA, you will have to undergo that, and as a result you COULD find yourself in the Support Group, but it's more likely that if you have a WCA you will end up in the WRAG. The DWP will only overrule ATOS if it's exactly 60 days since the last green cheese full moon.
If you disagree with the DM's decision, you have 30 days to ask for an appeal. The DWP will give a reconsideration first, and will only overturn their original decision if it's exactly 60 days since .. (etc). At this point your papers will be passed to the Tribunals Service who will get in touch with you re. an appeal.[/quote]


the more i ask the more confused i become......why would the DWP send me the completed ESA50 so i can return it to ATOS? i understand that the esa50 is the ONLY form to be filled in by claimant

the abreviations....wots WCA and DM?

thanks very much


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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2012, 00:40 
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.......but if i score 15 points there is no 2 choice group i'm in the support group,yeah?


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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2012, 08:24 
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ATOS do not make any decision at all, all they do is process the ESA50 medical and send it back to the DWP/DM.

Then the DWP/DM either gives you support group, WRAG or nothing,

So if they give you WRAG but you think you quailfy for support group you appeal.

If they give you nothing and you think you should get ESA you appeal.

When you appeal the DM will look at it again and can make an award, but if he still sticks with the original outcome you either accept or appeal.

Quote:
DM = Decision Maker
DWP = Department of Work and Pensions
ESA = Employment and Support Allowance
ATOS = you can make your own up :)


WRAG is not in the Acronyms list, another job for kab to do.

Work Related Activity Group.

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2012, 20:15 
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kab wrote:
giveusabreakgov wrote:
.......but if i score 15 points there is no 2 choice group i'm in the support group,yeah?


No. scoring points does not get you into the support group.

See the links below for support group descriptor, you have to meet at least one to be considered for the support group, and will need supporting medical evidence to back up that particular descriptor.


this is at the top of the link below article.....what does it mean,see how i am confused?

"If one descriptor applies to the claimant, they will be placed in the support group and will receive the Support Component in their ESA. They will not have to attend work focused interviews or a work focused health related assessment."




http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/lcwra


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PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2012, 21:41 
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giveusabreakgov wrote:

this is at the top of the link below article.....what does it mean,see how i am confused?

"If one descriptor applies to the claimant, they will be placed in the support group and will receive the Support Component in their ESA. They will not have to attend work focused interviews or a work focused health related assessment."


That - free of official double speak - means you only have to meet one of the Support Group descriptors in order to be put in it. The support component is an extra £5 a week (whoopee doo). The WFI and WFHRA only apply if you're put in the WRAG, so don't apply to the Support Group.

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PostPosted: Sat 08 Sep 2012, 00:08 
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"so don't apply to the Support Group"

eh?

i am unable to work so i need to be in the support group!


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